Women’s History Month Interview with Brigitte Grant, Dr. Mary Lackie and Kathi Warren
In recognition of Women’s History Month, Bryant Group is highlighting some of the incredible women we have collaborated with on leadership and engagement. For this article, we interviewed Brigitte Grant, Associate VP, UT Health Houston, Development and Public Affairs Department; Dr. Mary Lackie, VP of University Advancement and President of UCA Foundation, University of Central Arkansas; Kathi Dantley Warren, VP, Rice University, Development and Relations. They will be featured as panelists at the upcoming CASE District IV Conference in April 2023 hosted by Bryant Group CEO Sally Bryant for their forum “Letters to My Former Self.”
Answers have been edited for length.
Bryant Group: Good morning, all! Thank you so much for joining us. To dive right into things, I’d love to ask our first question. We've seen women participate in many different functions in higher education and healthcare; what drew you all to leadership and administration?
Brigitte: My story is certainly one that’s very relatable: I was a first generation college student passionate about helping people, but didn’t have a lot of exposure. I thought about social work or psychology, and fortunately, after I finished my Bachelor’s, I was able to work at a children’s nonprofit in Illinois. It was remarkable and incredible work that fulfilled my passion, but I couldn’t envision a career in direct service. I was given a lot of latitude, wrote some successful grants and hired people, and had great mentors and coaches, so moved into leadership pretty young. I spent twenty-four years at that organization, and was able to grow as a leader, professional, and key driver of initiatives. After I left, I took on a frontline fundraising role so in some ways a step down, and immediately missed the scope of being in a leadership role – thinking strategically and for a high-level impact is just as important to me as the ability to serve people and individuals. I’m most proud of the individuals I’ve been able to hire and mentor and coach!
Mary: Well, I’ve been in higher education my whole career! For me, it was a natural progression of wanting to grow in leadership and opportunities.
Kathi: I learned about advancement and development in graduate school, and how philanthropy draws investments into an institution that can be directly applied to strategic initiatives, scholarships, and fellowships. I didn’t know about that in undergrad! Then, through my roles in leadership and exposure to other departments, I realized that this is one path forward in higher education. You don’t have to become a faculty member or a researcher. And so my roles in advancement eventually led me here.
BG: Slight two-part question: What does “leadership” mean to you, and what are the hallmarks of a successful leader?
Mary: I love being a leader. To me, it means leading a team of people and surrounding yourself with people with skills you don’t have, while giving them the tools they need to do their jobs effectively. Being humble enough to ask for help. Having an atmosphere where it’s okay to say “that doesn’t work”, and an open door policy to allow for discussion on different ways to go about things. I don’t always have the best ideas, and I’m not always the smartest person in the room! When you’re working with people, talk to them – ask, “What do you want to do five to ten years from now? What are your end goals?” Then try to give them opportunities which will lead to achieving their goals. I’d rather have a rockstar for two to three years than someone who’s mediocre who never wants to leave.
Kathi: Leadership means taking ownership and accountability for whatever spot you’re in, whether you manage no one, or everyone, with the recognition that you are always visible. You always have a powerful opportunity to make an impact, so take that seriously. With everything that you do, do it from the perspective of how it could influence others and influence your organization. I think folks that best embody leadership own that accountability and integrity, while being cognizant of getting your group towards a common goal, and that you’re part of a system with others trying to meet their goals. My job is to understand my organization and make a direct contribution, whether through driving philanthropy or helping another unit, even if it’s only in a peripheral way, in order to achieve the university’s goals.
Brigitte: I’m a word person! Words that come to mind are: Compassion. Caring. Willingness. Vision. Commitment. Strategist. Approachable. Open. Learner. I do feel a tie to servant leadership which I experienced in the nonprofit sector, because leadership is about service to others and a greater good. Successful leaders leverage the talents and passion of individuals for a greater level of success and achievement.
BG: What do you love about your work?
Kathi: Leading people, helping people understand personal and collective responsibility, seeing teams move forward together. I love seeing people have “a-ha!” moments in how they impact others and advance their organization. My responsibility is to be a shepherd to get everyone to a destination – for instance, if my goal is to raise x amount of money, collectively, I need to get the organization to own that goal and achieve it. My philosophy is getting to the goal together – it’s not really a “win” if you haven’t moved everybody forward together, even if at the end of the day, quantitative goals are met.
Brigitte: I love being able to serve a mission of an institution, being able to educate future healthcare providers, being able to provide best in care with translational research. I love what advancement and fundraising can do: we’re facilitators. We’re educator storytellers. We’re matchmakers. And we get to work with people who want to create a positive effect! I love the fact that I work with a diverse, good-sized team – I have four of my team managers in the university’s executive leadership program, which is a great program, a really incredible opportunity. As leaders we must support the leadership development of others.
Mary: Relationships! I love working with people. I love my team, I love my donors. The people we work with the most - our donors - are giving people. Not all of them are wealthy, but they care enough, and want to give to help people they’ve never even met. It’s so much fun. It’s like a gift, really.
BG: Have there been any particular challenges you’ve faced in a traditionally male-dominated field; if so, how did you overcome them?
Brigitte: While the fundraising profession has a majority of women in its ranks, leadership roles have tended to be a higher percentage of men. Now, I see enormous growth and movement forward in working with some of my employees who are decades younger, just hearing the way they talk about it. They don’t have old baggage – they see opportunity. It’s a wonderful thing to be able to watch happen professionally, and be a role model.
Mary: It’s funny, since I’ve been in advancement, I’ve worked with more women than men. Even the person that hired me initially, the Vice Chancellor, was a woman. I will say that men approach things differently sometimes. In so many other jobs, when I’ve worked with men, it was about learning to work with them, to get their strengths and your strengths to work together. But overall, if this had been twenty years ago, I would have had a much different answer. Now, it’s less of an anomaly, with more women in leadership.
Kathi: I think there are challenges every day; it can be very difficult for a strong female voice to be respected as consistently and with the same level of value that a strong male voice is given. There are often expectations – some overt, some covert – about what a woman leader’s role is in an organization, you know, whether to speak or not speak, and it’s tough. It can be very challenging to your personal confidence when you recognize your voice isn’t given the same value. So if I am trying to achieve an objective, I often have to think about whose voice will be most effective. This takes more time, and can be emotionally draining, but sometimes that’s what’s called for. I’m always striving to change that dynamic and narrative, but you can’t always change it on your own, so I hope that there are allies in men who recognize that, and help give you agency and challenge the culture so things change for the better.
BG: How has your relationship with Bryant Group supported you in your career advancement?
Mary: I was already in a senior leadership role when I first associated with Bryant Group, and I had a great conversation with Sally at the CASE IV Conference right before COVID hit. We got the idea to do a session at a CASE conference about women leadership issues, and we ended up doing a session at last year’s conferce, “Letters to My Former Self: A Woman’s Path to Leadership.” It explored what we wished we would have known when and other issues. I got to think about a lot of things, and the session was very well received.. Through that association with Sally and the Bryant Group, I have broadened my network. I’ve met different people and I got the chance to shine as a leader.
Kathi: I was fortunate to have worked with Bryant Group in both executive coaching and as a facilitator to work with members of my leadership team to address organizational issues, as well as using their candidate search services.
Brigitte: Oh my goodness. Sally Bryant is a role model. I consider her to be a friend and a colleague, and then at other times, a mentor and a coach. The way in which she provides leadership to the firm, and then also to our sector, through engaging a few of us colleagues to present at a conference as women leaders in this space, was received so positively. And Bryant Group as a whole has a culture of caring. Side story: I was going to be flying halfway across the country for an interview, but my flights got messed up, and I only got to Dallas just as the interviews were supposed to start. But someone from Bryant Group picked me up and set me up in their office. I almost would have canceled, if it weren’t for them caring for me as a candidate. And even when I’ve been involved in professional opportunities that didn’t go the way I wanted, Sally has been supportive.
BG: What is the impact you hope to leave on your organization?
Kathi: Well – and this is public knowledge – I’ll be leaving Rice at the end of March.
BG: Oh my goodness, congratulations! Do you know what’s coming next?
Kathi: Not yet, but that’s exciting! But with Rice, the immediate impact I’ll have had is back-to-back record fundraising efforts in two fiscal years. I’ve implemented DEI efforts in advancement, and partnered with the Vice Provost of DEI within our organization, and with alumni and stakeholders. I also led Rice advancement during the time of COVID challenges. Leading during that time was very tough, but it was important for me to do so with compassion and transparency. Even if you don’t have all the answers, and you’re in a situation that’s completely fluid, you can still lead with compassion and achieve fundamental goals. My legacy will be in investing in the culture of the organization: retaining people became a primary objective, because I was still interested in investing in people and caring for them, not just nurturing through COVID and professional development.
Brigitte: I really do feel that my greatest impact will be the individuals I’ve mentored that continue to serve and grow in their own leadership. Because we are still developing as institutions and organizations, our greatest impact is with individuals, creating new ideas, and developing the future. I’m passionate about providing everything I can to every member of our team. I’m of a learner mindset, and I hope I’m able to share how much that means to me, because that to me is where true difference is made, when people are comfortable to think out of the box and bring their own ideas.
Mary: One impact is a capital campaign that ends in June of 2024, which aims to bring in $100 million. A gentleman I worked with got it started, and it is a fabulous team, all of us. But because I’m in my position, people will give me the credit – which isn’t fair! – so every chance I get in front of our boards, I talk about the team. I think my real legacy will be getting the UCA Foundation to where it needs to be. It has grown significantly in the last five years which really necessitates a change in procedures. For example, processes that work when you have 50 scholarship funds may not be sustainable for when you have 500. I learned a lot about this when I worked at University of Arkansas Fort Smith, which had already gone through this process of growing pains and implementing best practices so that the Foundation can continue to grow. You have to look at everything: how your board is organized, how your policies align, the efficiency of your process, etc. But what’s funny is that no one will know what we did! The improvements are all behind the scenes. But the Foundation Board members know, and the President of the university knows.
BG: Alright, last question – are there any parting pieces of wisdom or advice you would give young women entering higher education, healthcare administration, or development?
Brigitte: I think that with my learner mindset, there have been times when I didn’t realize that everything that I truly needed to know was in me somewhere already. Everything you need to know, you do know, in your head and in your heart, and you just have to align with that with your learner mindset. I think for any professional, it’s really being confident and comfortable with who you are, because that’s what’s in there. Right yourself to know that you’ve got it in there, while still recognizing areas to explore. I bristle at the saying “Someone doesn’t know what they don’t know,” because I think it’s also important to take a positive approach, and that’s negative. It’s so easy for young professionals to have imposter syndrome, but really, what’s in your head and heart is the base and foundation. Everything else is sprinkles on top.
Mary: My advice is to women in any field when you’re interviewing for jobs. I was in a Zoom meeting during COVID with women all across the country talking about issues, and we discussed that when a woman is asked about her accomplishments, she may have a tendency to only talk about something she 100% did. We don’t talk about collaboration the same way men do. For instance, there was a woman who was being interviewed for a fundraising job where the committee asked what her biggest gift was, and it seemed low. But in her one-on-one with me, I asked her again about her to tell me more about her biggest and other gifts, and the largest turned out to be exponentially greater. She made all the connections for that gift - found the donor, cultivated the relationship, etc.. Even if the President made the ask, as was appropriate for the size,, it’s still her gift! Bottom line, if it’s a group effort but you play a critical role: claim those things. You can say you’re part of a team, but your position was still critical, and it wouldn’t have happened without you.
Kathi: My advice: don’t think about a title, think about opportunities for impact. Titles and promotions will come with that. In the same vein, however, don’t be afraid to be a self-advocate. And identify your mentors, those who will give you direct and constructive advice – they’re out there, seek them, find them, and listen to what they have to say. I think there’s a big fallacy: when someone gets advice, to question it, out of fear that we have to know all the answers. I’ve been fortunate to work with some really smart people, and there’s an inherent challenge that when you’re smart, you think not having an answer is a failure. But it’s the opposite: owning what you know versus what you don’t know, and being wrong, have nothing to do with failing – no one can know everything all at once. Seek to improve and enhance your knowledge base, but know that it’s okay to be wrong and vulnerable sometimes. I’ve had the courage to be vulnerable sometimes – and believe it’s why I’ve been successful – because it’s about getting people to recognize that this is part of growth, we’re still on a journey, and we can seek to be growing and learning and be okay with not knowing everything. I have a favorite saying: in time you learn to fail better. Fail better all the time, because really, that’s how you learn. Like this analogy: when you’re working out and building muscle, you work out to failure, in order to tear muscle fiber. That’s how it repairs itself and ultimately builds muscle. So work with the perspective that growth is all about testing limits, having something give, and then building on top of that.
BG: Thank you all for being here today, and best of luck at the conference!
These interviews are taking place in concert with a Q&A article with the new President & Chief Executive Officer of Kansas Leadership Center, Dr. V. Kaye Monk-Morgan. Selected by the board following an extensive national search,Kaye brings 30 years of experience in university administration at her alma mater Wichita State University and other institutions, service to community and national organizations, and advocacy work and consulting to this role. You can read her interview with us at the link here.
